Live Show on Wednesdays 6:20 PM Mountain Time on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5n_8_6j00PSeju0hu2CFXQ
Kwaku El in Studio for a Live Conversation about FAIR and Saints Unscripted Kwaku has graciously accepted our invitation to sit down on Mormonism LIVE ! with Radio Free Mormon and Bill Reel to discuss primarily his separating from Saints Unscripted and having projects he worked on that contributed to content on FAIR having been removed. We also touch on his feelings and thoughts regarding people who leave and the emotional turmoil such journeys encapsulate and We talk about whether he recognizes if the critics are reasonable in their approach and conclusion and if he is for that matter.
YOUTUBE VIDEO RECORDING of this episode – https://youtu.be/Kd7EdebQ194
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: RSS
Bill question to Kwaku around 47:50 was carefully worded. It was about whether it could be rationally understood why someone would leave.
Kwaku’s response was telling. He nuanced it and found a way to stay in.
In my mind, Kwaku’s “non-intellectual” pathway negates virtually all fact claims. And if there are no fact claims at all, then there is nothing that can be corroborated: no dates, no foundation, no science, etc. This all becomes, to me, no stability.
If the prophet says something and its from God but wrong, then “Oh, that wasn’t from God after all”…or “Its just men doing their best”.
This is untenable. Why?…because you can believe in anything, good or bad, correct or incorrect, fact or fable.
Its as though Kwaku’s approach is that “belief” is the most important. Facts and truth claims?….that’s beside the point.
Its the church itself that provided the “sudden death” criteria. Either the Book of Mormon is true or not. So, now we have to descend into an epistemological debate about “what is truth” in the first place?
Is truth that which makes you feel good? Is it that which leads you to do good? What is “doing good” in the first place?
In the early LDS days, Brigham Young taught that it was good to kill, on the spot, those who mixed their seed with the seed of Cain. Was this “Good”?….or was this just a man doing his best?
This approach allows you to provide license, even justification, for immoral behavior. Why?…because “they were just doing their best”.
“Give Brother Joseph a break!” Indeed.
What do you do for the current brethren and the suicides happening in the LGBTQ community?
These same brethren, who supposedly teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, teach on one hand that “God would not create something broken” (BKP talk to Gay men and women), and in the same breath take no responsibility for the POX they said was “revelation” and tore families apart. This was not presented as a policy. RMN said this was revelation.
The same brethren who teach they are being transparent lock away hand written notes taken from JS personal diary.
The same brethren who teach they follow Christ and amass billions of dollars from tithing, invest it in shopping malls when Christ taught to “sell and give to the poor”. Is the church donating 50% to the poor?…no?…what about 10%?…..no again?…hunh. How are they following Christ?
The list goes on and on.
I love your enthusiasm Kwaku, but I see no substance to what you are saying. Belief for the sake of it feeling good is dangerous. It opens the doorway to all kinds of excesses, including Utah being the world capital for affinity fraud. I mean, after all, people can invest their money if they “feel good” only…right?
Feeing good without a factual platform to base those good feelings on is the epitome of building on a sandy foundation.
@rob4hope – I had the same thoughts. Sandy foundation indeed.
Yeah, I left the church because I wanted to turn my alarm clock off and get fast food on Sunday. It’s interesting to learn that Kwaku thinks what is “true” is more important than what is “rational” and professes that the way to discern what is true involves magic. That’s funny.
Am I stating the obvious?….Kwaku showed up on your show last week to portray himself as some kind of reasonable guy. Then a few days later he promotes his upcoming show in which he intends to apologize to John Dehlin. Then at the last minute he demonstrates classic bait-and-switch by changing his show title to “The End of John Dehlin” Then he executes his hit piece on JD.
I hate to say it guys (RFM and Bill Reel) but you guys were used.
He did not come across as reasonable to me. I found him likable and he has some charm but as he talked I found he didn’t have substance. I do not see the using but I have never paid attention to him until the broadcast.
I saw RFM and Bill being VERY VERY hospitable to Kwaku.
In my mind, had they not done as they did, there would have been a confrontation. As it was, Kwaku gave RFM and Bill all the ammo necessary.
All three of you guys got the privilege to choose the gospel as presented to you and each of you had people around you who influenced you and had an impact on your ultimate decision on joining. Being raised in the church ( born in the covenant) for most of us ,leaving is like escaping from Alcatraz. The teaching ,the culture ,the judgement, the accepted forms of action and denial, are all part and parcel of your being ,it’s not an act . Mr Ell is a pretty good actor ,but he is also a very poor apologist. Yes he is young and he comes off as the admitted not very smart ,but feeling individual. But he talks a bit too much . And in his very speech he gives himself away . My exodus from Mormonism has been because of the high rate of suicide among our youth . There is absolutely something wrong with an organization that would leave no other way out for some of its captives. A close friend of mine ounce said, Mormonism requires you to be a good actor. But what do you do when you have to play the bad guy? I’ve attended 4 funerals of suicide victims in the chapels around the area where I live . These young men were all victims ,and if you want to hear apology’s that’s all that could be expressed. But every stake president that spoke said that these misguided people would be judged ,not by their action but by their state of mind at the time . I appreciate kwakus acting it’s getting better, but his influencing needs to come from a more Christlike perspective ,I mean New Testament, book of Matthew driven ,God is love place . His hit piece on John delin is proof positive that his motive is fame and fortune ,not the tenants of the basic teachings of Jesus Christ . But who am I to judge ,I only have 56 years of perspective and the older I get the harder this Mormon vortex swirls . Like most things in life ,when a person talks too much it means they are trying really hard to convince themselves of the validity of what they are saying. To a good sailor, wind direction doesn’t matter , he just needs wind . Mr ells isn’t out of the bay yet ,but then again neither are us Mormons who are petrified that our seamanship Is more acting , than actual doing . Thanks for taking us out to sea with this podcast you two deserve some props. Everyone who is currently navigating a faith crisis needs some wind . We all need the master to calm the storm and right our ship and help us to help and love and support one another. Remember the difference between bravery and heroism is one is heralded for the attempt the latter is immortalized for its competition.