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Mormonism LIVE: 029: Another One Bites the Dust

We sit down with Taylor Drake to talk about his new book, “Joseph in the Gap”, and how this book has led to a disciplinary council with his Stake President on June 30th.

Book “Joseph in The Gap” –


10 thoughts on “Mormonism LIVE: 029: Another One Bites the Dust”

      1. I find it interesting how some people are willing to deconstruct Mormonism, but put the brakes on at a certain point and try to hang on to some of the beliefs refusing to accept the possibility that it’s all a fabrication. It’s ok to throw the baby out with the bath water when the baby is not there and never was.

  1. I tip my hat to anyone — who believes the Book of Mormon and early revelations — coming into a venue where the hosts don’t.

    To me, the Book of Abraham and the Book of Mormon are two sides of the same coin. Both were fictions created by Joseph’s creative mind.

    I know Joseph authored the Book of Abraham thanks to the LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists who have confirmed that Joseph’s translations of Egyptian words on Facsimile 3 are wrong.

    Once I saw how Joseph authored the Book of Abraham, it was easy to understand how Joseph could have authored the Book of Mormon, which is creative but also littered with anachronisms and 19th centuries ideas like the mound-builder myth.

    Then, when I read about higher criticism of the Bible, I saw parallels between Joseph’s creation of scripture and the creation of the Old and New testaments. I’d recommend Bart Ehrman’s books as a start.

    I encourage anyone, who rejects Nauvoo Mormonism to embrace Kirtland Mormonism as a weigh station, to consider focusing their minds on higher criticism of the Bible and New Testament. They may find that Joseph was creating fictions just like the authors of the Bible and that there is no divine “baby” to save in all that “bathwater”.

  2. I just wanted to point out that the BOM, D&C or J. Smith as a Prophet, fallen or otherwise, do not constitute the proverbial “baby” worth saving. The idea that the truth matters, that unconditional love toward our fellow humans or that honesty is an important principle to live by are what constitute worthwhile values for living and none of those things require belief in anything from the supernatural realm.

    One other thing. Facts exist. Scriptures are collections of human lore and mythology with a few factual elements worked in among a boatload of fiction. Using scripture, any scripture, in an attempt to prove the validity of another scripture is a surefire path to circular reasoning and, while I enjoy chasing my own tail as much the next guy, at some point one must step off the merry-go-round and face the facts.

  3. Yeah, I’d like to hear defined what the “baby” is going out with the bath water. Is it the divinity of Christ? I mean do I have to remind folks that the only thing that we have of his teachings came to us by ways that are not much different than the way the BoM and the BoA came to us. It’s all speculative writing by people who were creating a narrative to fit a world view of the authors, and it’s all faith based. I’m not sure how faith works in such discriminating ways, discriminating against polygamy but embracing the scape-goating sacrifice of a radical rabbi whose lore and miracle rose with every retelling, leading some 80 years later to a truly miraculous person representing what, without Constantine, would have been just an obscure Jewish sect. Sounds like the increasingly robust first vision and priesthood restoration story type stuff to me.

    The “baby” I suspect is the universal goodness of philosophy that Jesus articulated. The thing is such philosophy existed way before the Carpenter from Galilee, such values as I, a lost and confused Atheist had no trouble adapting as my own when I tossed the bath water of faith based living, the same faith that may move mountains, but more likely moves people who would never acquiesce an evil to it straight away and with ease.

    I commend Mr. Drake for seeing the obvious, however forgive me if I’m not impressed, and non-plussed with the interview, as what Mr. Drake fails to grasp, is that Mormonism is just but a chapter of the same book, where not just faith based religions are revealed, but also totalitarian political systems that demand complete obeisance to a supreme leader. Hopefully Mr. Drake will continue a critical look at the evidence, as some of the tools he used to dismantle parts of his Mormon dogma, can be used also in the dismantling of all faith in God/Gods.. I would suggest excellent work in field of evolutionary psychology, and the development of the need in our evolutionary frontal cortex that lead us to suppose unseen agents pulling the strings of reality around us, and developing our propitiations to assuage these agents to act favorably for ourselves, our clans and tribes.

  4. RFM- Please fix your microphone. Your guest and Bill both sound crystal clear, but your microphone sound is like an echo chamber. I have noticed the echo issue in your other podcasts as well, but this time it’s worse than usual. And since I’m asking, can you balance the levels of the audio clips that you use? Sorry to complain. I always enjoy your commentary.

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