RFM: 289: Jenn Kamp v. John Dehlin–The Anti-Stalking Hearing!by Radio Free MormonJuly 23, 2023July 23, 20235 Comments On March 7, 2023, a four-hour evidentiary hearing was held on Jenn Kamp‘s petition to have a permanent anti-stalking order placed against John Dehlin. This is the full audio of that hearing! Podcast: Play in new window | DownloadSubscribe: RSSTags:HearingJenn KampJohn DehlinlawsuitMormon StoriesOpen Stories FoundationRadio Free MormonrfmStalking 5 thoughts on “RFM: 289: Jenn Kamp v. John Dehlin–The Anti-Stalking Hearing!” Carrie Lee July 25, 2023 at 1:30 pm Reply Hi RFM. Longtime listener/lurker. We live in the same state (I’m south of you) and I have legal field experience as well (I was a Limited Legal License Technician in family law from 2014-2016 – I burned out). We have plenty of common ground and I usually appreciate the clarity and precision of your approach. I had to step out of the shadows this time, and share From my work in the legal field, I am well aware of the public binary view and how rare that anything is that simple. How the morally wrong can win in court every day of the week. In the human experience, some people are not compatible, and some people trigger some of the worst reactions. As a post mormon woman, and a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, I have had a really really hard time with the tone of the content around Jenn. I do not personally know anyone involved in any of this, but I have made inferences from throughout. With all due patriarchal deference, I believe there is some lacking of compassion or appreciation of the full context in this matter. I just finished listening to the audio of this LONG hearing, and my view is we should attempt to use the same critical analysis skills when evaluating Jenn’s position and claims with the nuance context to enable seeing this situation in a fuller nuanced understanding. From the audio I can conclude that Jenn was/is ill informed on how the legal system functions (the “counter suit” issue 🤦🏻♀️). This fact may inform her actions, it is easy to surmise she is overwhelmed and ill-equipped. John is both older than her and the employer/authority in this situation. John is someone trained in mental health. Jenn is especially reactive and sensitive on the subject of her abuse. Jenn also has an emotional response to conflict. Jenn has intense defenses that are triggered when she perceives that choice or voice is taken from her. In my experience, a person raised female in the Mormon church has their choice and voice restricted early and with increasing intensity. Clawing that ground is difficult as much of that influence becomes internalized by adulthood. Jenn made herself vulnerable by sharing her personal abuse story, exercising trust. John, exercising his caution and restraint, as issues arose while working with Jenn. Jenn, when finding out that John had thoughts and concerns about her while she was exercising trust resulted in her feeling hurt/misled. We can hold space for people who are on a different part of their journey, and are allowed to be flawed, to have feelings, and to see that in them is not finding them lacking, but just human. With where Jenn is (in maturity, emotionally, deconstructing), she seems to be a poor fit for the Open Stories Foundation. Jenn appears to take a revisionist approach, as her feelings towards a person colors her memories and recollections. Jenn appeared to be quite raw, and demonstrates feelings of betrayal. There are many of her fears that seem unreasonable and reactions or conclusion leaps that result in real harm to others. While I can see that for the most part, Jenn seems to be telling the truth as she perceives it today, so was John. While there appears to be some manipulations or spin to the reasons for firing her (leveraged newly gained knowledge of other’s salaries to get raises 👀 🤦🏻♀️), however, her job performance would predictably be impacted for the same reasons the job is a poor fit. John seeking further communication shows he is not heartless. John being more mature, is operating from that space. John testimony of his personal impact is completely believable. He demonstrates confusion as to the leaps in conclusions made by Jenn, and seems legitimately hurt by the implications. He too feels somewhat betrayed by her assumptions, of what she thought him capable of. As to the outcome, there are no winners really. Objectively, the finding is correct. The system worked as it should. Our court system doesn’t do much in the way of helping our communities to hear one another and work to realign or heal. This is another case of something going to court that shouldn’t have. The resolution is still sad, for the growth needed is obvious and the forum a mismatch. There are plenty of learning opportunities in the mistakes, misunderstandings, varied perspectives, and communication failures, for those who care to reflect on it. Frankly, I find myself wishing for a pathway that may not be possible, especially in a culture lacking in restorative approach to justice and building of relationships Favorite nugget: John’s response to the question about having control of RFM’s postings “sometimes I wish I did.” 💀😂 Careful Listener July 30, 2023 at 1:28 am Reply 2:37:40 anon August 3, 2023 at 9:21 pm Reply Speaking as a woman and mother, I think John really dropped the ball on properly screening potential employees. I feel badly for him for the repercussions he and Margi have suffered as a result, and I hope he will be more careful with future new-hires. Jack August 6, 2023 at 4:58 pm Reply I thought the hearing was a bit of a circus. Poorly organized, especially Jenn Kamp’s side. Didn’t Jenn’s attorney bother to prep her testimony? By the time they rambled through their three hour presentation, do you think anyone had a clear understanding of what they were saying? At times, I thought Jenn’s attorney forgot that this wasn’t the defamation lawsuit, it was a hearing on the ex-parte petition. A lot of their testimony seemed irrelevant to the legal issue. At the end of the hearing, do you think anyone knew which video was what number in the court record? Donna September 10, 2023 at 8:32 pm Reply This was very interesting. Thank you for sharing this. I have been watching Mormon Stories for a few years, but have recently found and enjoyed your podcasts as well. I appreciate this community. I am cynical and as I watched this podcast I tried to find the Salt Lake Tribune article with the 18 accusers, no such luck. It doesn’t seem to exist yet. Your facts were solidly presented. I watched the board meeting as long as I could stand. I never enjoyed Jenn Kamp on Mormon Stories, she was a disappointing replacement for Carah Burrell. I found her to be emotional frequently and related to guests by referencing her own experiences. She seemed to be seeking attention. I heard her mention her own childhood sexual abuse in episodes with other guests stories. I never watched her personal Mormon story because I knew I couldn’t watch her cry for 2+ hours. Honestly, I was glad when she left Mormon stories. It’s always ridiculous to me when people put themselves out in front of the world via the internet and then start complaining about privacy. I have privacy, but no internet presence. It’s easy. I think what would most help Jenn Kamp would be to get seriously involved with therapy. When she was first on Mormon stories she seemed emotionally fragile. It was painful to watch her, so I stopped. On the upside I found RFM because of Jenn Kamp. So thank you Jenn. 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