Elder Dallin H. Oaks recently instructed that local leaders need to ramp up their excommunication numbers!
RFM has now obtained a leaked copy of the PowerPoint presentation used by Elder Oaks, and reviews it in detail!
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I think when he’s talking about the proportion of disciplinary actions being less, he means the percentage, so it’s even more greatly reduced than the reduction in councils. For example, say 10 years ago they had 10,000 councils and 50% of them had discipline, so 5,000 people. Then last year, they had a reduction in councils to 1,000, you would expect there to still be 500 people disciplined right? But I think he’s saying it’s less than the expected “50%” in my example and more like 25%. That’s just my take but I think it makes sense.
Note how Pres Oaks takes away from the “common judges” – who are supposed to be inspired and given the gift of discernment – the right/opportunity/possibility of inspiration in their calling with regard to how to deal with their own local members. He’s essentially saying “Your inspiration be damned. You must create the most punitive and painful experience possible for your members so they REALLY can know how broken they are. The atonement be damned s as well. It’s not the demands of justice that matter – it’s MY demands that must be satisfied “.
New name for Elder Oaks, Caiphus. I believe the modern day Sadducees and Pharisees that now live in Salt Lake City would excommunicate Jesus from his church.
RFM, I think you missed part of Oaks’ point:
Not only are the numbers of excommunication down, but the PROPORTION of excommunications is down. I assume this means that the percentage of disciplinary councils resulting in excommunication is lower than previously.
So to put it another way, bishops/stake presidents are holding fewer councils AND they are less likely to excommunicate “sinful” members when councils ARE held.
I think the SEC fraud sanction and fine is a pretty big deal and since Oaks was directly involved in it, he should take his own directive and excomunicate himself for a year, and if it happens that Nelson dies within that year he can’t be made president . That right there is the price of repentance.
On the other hand if in my stake every man that had a porn, oral sex ,gambling or financial fraud tax problem was excommunicated we wouldn’t have anybody to staff the word positions. We would have to let the women do it.
I was an LDS Army Chaplain, set apart by a 70, and I lost my endorsement from the Church and threatened with disciplinary counsel from HQ. I had not broken any of the church laws and my stake president refused to hold a counsel. We moved and I transitioned jobs as an Army Officer, and my wife and I started a TikTok during COVID that discussed how the church was problematic for behavioral health. We decided to stop attending church because we felt it was doing more harm than good. Our bishop came to us and asked us to resign our membership, that it would be best to go that way. We weren’t ready for that. But we felt like if we were no longer wanted we would sign the documents at our kitchen table. No one ever tried to “save” us or ask us to come back to church. There was no “sin” to repent of. We were just asked to resign. I’m now living in Germany, if you ever want to talk you have my email associated with this comment. We’ve since transitioned the TikTok to breast cancer theme, we are kind of post post Mormon. But some of our early stuff is still on there at LifeAfterTheStorm.
I had been inactive in the church for sometime and was beginning to become active when I admitted to having intercourse, having previously been through the temple before my inactivity, when I made my confession my bishop held a bishop’s counsel on me, I was disfellowshipped, it actually took me more than two years to be reinstated. Since then I have left the church!
You seemed to have gone out of your way to put as many of YOUR WORDS, not his, in Pres. oaks mouth……..besides how mis informed you are about most of this and theses processes……..I was a bishop through this period and received this training, which is nothing like you have presented
Then please clarify. What was the training and what did RFM get wrong. We are happy to listen to whatever you have to say that can shed light on this extremely troubling training.
These are exactly the deception tactics I was taught when I was in my Ward leadership. Everything was designed with a purpose of not leaving the Church exposed to its enemies. It also places control over the members and beyond. They are no better than the most deceitful politicians. They have already bargained with the Devil and made a sweet deal to cut him in on the “Glory”. Why do I believe this? Because I sat in many Church leadership trainings where we were told to be secretive and use deceptive tactics to get members to reveal everything and for leaders to keep detailed notes that should be put in the Bishop’s private records for future referral. We all have a story about the deception by religions to maintain power and control and make them more money. Prove me wrong!
I cannot see the slides. I just have the audio. Also the a word you used at one point was extremely unpleasant. Can you please not swear in these podcasts because I don’t like how swear words make me feel.