25 Replies to “Radio Free Mormon: 152: Days of Thunder”

  1. Loved your observations about the the double request for ‘fasting’ and the deliberately ambiguous and carefully chosen wording. Was he a doctor or a lawyer in his previous life???? (no offence to you RFM) No doubt Kurton and Mckonkie review such word smithing…sorry , these men’s actions have left me somewhat cynical.

    I couldn’t help thinking of another reason why Dr. Nelson (he likes that) worded his convoluted, guilt ridden request the way he did…….It will create great fodder for upcoming stories of “Faith in the Priesthood NOT to be healed”…with a new pandemic twist…not to worry…..no real faith required for this one either. Watch out for that in ensuing conferences, do ya think? LOL

    Whatever the case may be, I agree. He doesn’t think he or anyone else has the power to change the course of this virus. (in case you forgot, he IS a doctor , you know)

    But he will take the opportunity to let the members think so as he flexes his prophet clout with God, for his celebration conference. It must be quite an ego hit for a 96 year old man to be able to move the masses, such as they are. I can’t get my dog to come when I call. Hahaha
    As you said, he has all his plausible deniability in place. …that’s why he may have waited…make it count. Is that what you were implying when you questioned his delay?

    You said so many hilarious things. Thank you. Common sense may not be dead after all 🙂

    1. Another thought occurred to me regarding ways in which President Nelson signals his lack of faith.

      He has been hitting the last days rhetoric like nobody I have seen in the past forty-years.

      To listen to President Nelson, Jesus is coming right around the corner!

      And yet, in the midst of a world-wide pandemic that could easily be characterized as a sign of the times, where was anything of this kind said in conference, much less by President Nelson?

      In other words, he has talked a lot about these being the very last of the last days, but when a sign like Covid-19 knocks on the door, he doesn’t say anything about the last days.

      It makes me think he doesn’t really believe Jesus is coming in short order, and that he doesn’t really believe the messages he gives to that effect.

      I can’t be sure that is the reason, but the lack of any apocalyptic messaging in conference struck me as notable.

      1. Astute observation. …especially when the Christian world is talking about end times with the virus being a sign of some sort.

        Its like Nelson is standing on his head to say they’re Christian and yet he’s conspicuously silent on the obvious things that most christian denominations can agree on…that Mormons agree on!

        Are we remembering he should have retired 30 years ago???!!!! LOL…we mustn’t forget he was a doctor…

        1. P. S. I can’t think of anything funnier than you compiling a bunch of clips of Nelson telling us he’s a surgeon, a doctor , a scientist. LOLOLOLOLOL

          1. I will have to intersperse them with clips of Elder Uchtdorf telling us he’s a pilot.

        2. Well, one of the things most Christians agree on is that Mormons aren’t Christian . . . ;^)

          1. Bwahahahaha! I guess Uchtdoff does do that…he just doesn’t annoy me as much. You’re a scream!

  2. Interesting how you pit Talmage against Mckonkie. Bruce’s son, Joseph Mckonkie never let an opportunity go by which allowed him to trash talk Talmage during his Sunday school lesson or if he was giving a talk. He must have inherited his dislike for Talmage from his daddy. I was unaware of this particular Mckonkie heresy but it certainly makes sense to me now.
    Since Nelson is the first prophet to not acquiesce unwittingly to satan ie they are all now non mormons, he is observingly enjoying his prophet power.
    “And you have nothing to do with it” So true. They don’t care about the members.
    What title does he prefer? Prophet? President? Doctor? Nelson doesn’t have any faith, he knows it’s a lie.

    1. Really? I had no idea there was such animus for James Talmage from Clan McConkie.

      I wonder why that is.

      Maybe they didn’t like the idea that Talmage had achieved the status of Establisher of Mormon Doctrine before Bruce R. McConkie got into the act.

      1. I think you’re right. What’s hilarious is I was in Joseph’s ward and my new husband was in his sister’s ward when we married 7 years ago. Same attitude from both.
        My husband only joined to marry me. He was my high school love I didn’t marry in 1982 since he wasn’t mormon. What a fool I was. 30 years apart, we reconnect he joins and ends up in a ward with a Mckonkie.
        I felt the envy from Joseph Mckonkie toward Talmage fairly quickly. His skin color would turn green. He didn’t hide it for sure. But he also would teach his own material after saying the manual in his most learned opinion was wrong and he would then teach his own stuff. FYI when he spoke to large crowds ie stake conference he would state that without Hyrum this church would have failed. He always played up Hyrum. Not hard to understand since the direct line for the McKonkie’s is Hyrum Smith not Joseph Smith.

        1. Wow! That is quite the story!

          It is interesting how Joseph Fielding McConkie felt entitled to trump the “truths” taught in the manual in favor of his own version.

          Also that he would have such a problem with James Talmage. Probably a similar thing going on there. Some things Talmage taught he didn’t agree with, but it may have been harder for him to publicly announce he was smarter than Apostle Talmage and so he just turned green instead. ;^)

  3. Great podcast as always! Another thing that bothered me about the Good Friday Fast: co-opting what has been a day of fasting for other Christians for centuries, as those it’s your idea. The hubris.

    1. I thought the exact same thing. There’s no way that fact escaped Nelson, but he didn’t have the propriety to mention it by at least by saying something like ,’We can join with Christians around the world on their traditional Good Friday fast’

      Instead he acts like he’s inviting the whole world to do something they were already doing! Is that why its the perfect day to piggyback himself on the Christian world?

      It’s so disingenuous, presumptuous, transparent and cringeeeeee!

  4. I believe this situation merits something bigger than just fasting and prayer by the members. Pres Nelson should follow the tried and proven method for desperate situations offered by Pres Lorenzo Snow during the great drought in Southern Utah.

    The proven way to obtaining God’s blessings is through sacrifice by paying your tithing!

    1. Good point!

      Maybe President Nelson didn’t want to draw unwanted focus to the fact he wasn’t offering a partial rebate from the EPA fund?

  5. Very interesting podcast! So much to ponderize. May I point out there has long been disagreement among the Q15 as to whether as Gods we will grow in knowledge. As RFM points out Bruce R. McConkie represents one side of that argument as to whether progression between kingdoms is possible, as well as if knowledge is gained over time. Otherwise, one might imagine the god of our planet saying: “Oh my heck! I have no idea how to stop coronavirus! I wish I could grow in knowledge before the human race is wiped out!” Clearly, that’s a possibility if our God has not finished a graduate level course in virology YET. On a lighter note, as a rockhounder myself, I’ll never be able to look at the Christus again without wondering what shiny agate has caught his attention. It’s a thought one can’t unthink.

    1. So many thoughts cross my mind in the course of a podcast and I just don’t have time to say them all.

      Though that may be hard to believe.

      Yes, this was one of the huge debates between Orson Pratt and Brigham Young; the issue of whether God was increasing in knowledge.

      Young said God was; Pratt said God wasn’t.

      As with the Adam-God dispute, Young won in the short run, but it was ultimately Pratt’s view that won out and gained the status of orthodoxy.

      Thank you for bringing that up!

      I may have to do an episode on “The Seven Deadly Heresies” at some point.

  6. Very interesting podcast. I especially enjoyed the discussion of the evolution/disappearance of common consent. Note that when people can’t vote with their mouths or hands they have to vote with their feet.

    1. That is an interesting idea. It makes me wonder if the church would be losing so many members if they gave them more of a voice in how the church is run. You know, kind of like how it’s laid out in the Doctrine and Covenants . .

  7. I have another viewpoint on the call for fasting.

    As a former Church employee, I can tell you the brethren are well aware of how much comes in each month in tithing and from FAST OFFERINGS. Knowing that we are facing a global pandemic with its impact on employment, I’m sure the brethren anticipated a massive run to bishops for church welfare/assistance. And, where does that assistance come from? Fast offerings.

    I’m quite confident that at least a part of why Pres. Nelson called for multiple days of fasting was to build up the reserve of fast offerings in local units for bishops to use to assist members needing financial assistance. (all the while, not drawing upon the ensign peak funds, of course)

    1. That is an interesting theory, Vince. I appreciate your sharing it with us.

      My only question would be, if this is the case, why was there no request for members who fasted to pay the amount of the meals skipped to their bishop for the purpose you suggest?

      In other words, if the point of the fast was to increase the fast offerings in every ward, why didn’t President Nelson mention it?

      We know we are supposed to do that as a matter of course with the regularly scheduled first-Sunday-of-the-month fast, but here I would have expected some direction on the subject.

      Of course, it is hard to tell whether you are being facetious in your comment.

      If you are, I apologize.

      But on the off chance you are being sincere, I wanted to respond in kind–with sincerity.

      Thanks for listening!


      1. Honored to have a reply from RFM! I guess I’ve just seen a regular pattern of Pres. Nelson not being forthright in his true motives, and given my past experiences, I interpret this as a financial decision (at least in part). As for why he didn’t also direct members to pay their fast offerings after the completion of the fasts, I think he’s hoping it’s assumed and perhaps would be a much-too-obvious tip of his cards. But that’s just me. I agree with all that you’ve said about this but just wanted to add this other possible motive. Thanks for all you do!

        1. I just released a podcast today that also deals with President Nelson and his possible motivations for calling everything he says a revelation.

          Admittedly, nobody can get into President Nelson’s head and figure out what he is up to or why he behaves in this way. Your guess is as good as mine.

          The easy answer would be that he is really receiving revelation and is just calling them as he sees them.

          Experience (and analysis) makes me suspect there is something else going on . . .

          Thanks again!


  8. Your thoughts on progression in kingdoms and the Talmage quotes are amazing. I find those ideas incredibly logical and I wish more leaders would delve into this more. Much better than the vague and threatening afterlife rhetoric we currently get. 🙂 You rock, RFM.

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